This ritual, Morrigan claims, is the reason Flemeth rescued the Wardens and the reason Morrigan had to accompany them. Morrigan also appears in Dragon Age: Inquisition as a supporting character. She is voiced by Claudia Black. Morrigan has been very well received; she is considered one of the most popular and recognizable characters in the Dragon Age series….
Morrigan Dragon Age. The player stabs Morrigan and she falls backwards through the Eluvian portal. The player and Morrigan kiss and then walk into the Eluvian portal together.
She genuinely falls in love with the Warden and grows as a human being. She still goes through with the plan but I believe her feelings for the Warden has changed or influenced her long-term objective, whatever that is. In the middle of the battle, she ends up defeated and thus is knocked out cold for the remainder of the fight. If you play as a female, you will only be able to flirt with Cassandra without any serious effects to relations with this character after several attempts, Cassandra decides that she is not interested and suggests that you remain friends.
You can do it if you want. I romanced Morrigan, Zevran, and Leliana in one playthrough. Morrigan first while I romanced Leliana, dumped Morrigan for Leliana, and slept with Zevran on the sly. In an interview I read, one of the developers said he was able to sleep with all three in one night at camp. It does not say what that Gift is, but we know, that the Warden goes West during Inquisition to find a Cure for the Taint.
Is it helpful for the gameplay or hurtful if you do not kill Loghain? I was looking at a walkthru and they said not to kill him, but that Alistar would storm off. I do not want to lose Alistar since he and my character are both champions. I thank you for the help. User Info: PigpenDad. Accepted Answer. He let himself be dragged into a darkness and refused to come out.
Only a strong kick in the head like becoming a Warden would give him a chance to come back to the light, but I wasn't willing to lose Alistair for someone I my Warden didn't even knew. I killed Loghain and i'd do it again. After reading this , nope, not at all. Not really, it made for a good story in the grand scheme of things. I mean from time to time I let Alistair kill him, but I flinch everytime I used to hate Loghain with a passion before reading the book.
I liked Alistair, but Loghain's dry humor made me laugh harder than anything most of the other party members said. There used to be an option to keep both Alistair and Loghain alive and in your party, but sadly; it was taken out. The dialogue can be found though. But alas, it wouldn't work for game balance due to so many warriors plus I'm sure having to make such a decision as to one or the other is done for good reason. I think Alistair is the only reason why I regrettably killed Loghain though, and I made him do it since he was so dead set for it.
He had his reasons for everything, and they weren't done out of cruelty or spite toward anyone or anything, but out of pure pragmatism to the point of not looking to hope or faith or anything like that as plausible reasoning because those concepts are not something tangibly logical to him, and therefore cannot be counted on.
This is the very definition of pragmatism, he just has it to a fine point, to which his actions through that ultimately lead to his downfall. Celsis talk , March 14, UTC. Never read books, spared Loghain on the very first playthrough because he seemed much more interesting than Alistair whose temper tantrum at that point did not help his case any.
Had problems not sparing him in subsequent playthroughs because he proved to be more interesting than Alistair. Dorquemada talk , March 14, UTC. Nope, not at all. I was a human noble in my first playthrough and spoke to him in Ostagar where he told me that he knew what Howe did to my family.
After he betrayed the king, wardens and allied himself with Howe, I couldn't help but think that he, like Howe, betrayed the king to gain power. On top of that, he put a bounty on my head when I did nothing wrong, plunged Fereldan into civil war, attempted to kill Eamon and partook in several other bad stuff. This was enough for me alone to want him dead, not to mention how my most loyal comrade, Alistair, who stood by me no matter how much he disagreed with my choices, felt about him.
Even if I didn't want vengence on Loghain, I wouldn't betray Alistair to have him recruited. I understand that Loghain was really trying to save Fereldan and that his fear and hatred to Orlay is justified, but the bottom line is that he crossed me and Alistair.
I have absolutelly no regret in executing him. He's a hero who became a villain. I could give him a chance to redempiton, but had absolutelly no desire. Any of my human nobles or elves cannot forgive him.
He allowed willingly them both to commit their crimes. I hate him for his treachery, but not so much to his daughter with his blood in her veins.
I gave his daughter and Alistair the crown. My Dalish elf Warden would always kill Loghain simply because he sells elves into slavery, and even dares to try and justify it. I mean, seriously That said, if my Warden was told that a warden is needed for killing the archdemon at that point in the game, she might have spared him.
Actually, reading Stolen Throne made me hate him more, not less. Whatever Katriel had done, Loghain had no right to withhold from Maric vital information. I do not forgive such betrayals, especially because he never atoned for that. Besides, my Cousland was dead sure that Loghain orchestrated the Highever massacre as a preparation for his coup at Ostagar, and having barely recovered from the Fort Drakon experience, he very much wanted to kill Loghain with his own hands.
The fact that he himself was developing a tendency to brutal pragmatism only fuelled the decision. Try suggesting Ned Cousland that he should spare Howe - or rather not, you don't want to see what would follow. Always thought he was respectable. It's always said that he was doing what he thought that was right not caring for the cost, as if that justified it. I call it bullshit. You know what they say: "If that's what the world needs to be saved, perhaps it would be better that it perish".
Mandalore , March 14, UTC. Maybe the original poster and I are either just oddballs, or perhaps we just see the bigger picture, but it seems like no one here is the type to forgive those who are willing to atone for their crimes or those who are willing to admit when they were wrong which Loghain does both. Well, what about all those potentially and sometimes unavoidable horrible things the Warden or Hawke can or must do?
Why shouldn't your Warden pay for those crimes with death if you so believe that doing horrible things justifies death? Some unavoidable difficult decisions that the Warden must make is killing either the rightful heir to the Dwarven throne or killing the former Kings favored successor when both are loved by certain people.
Having to choose between saving Amaranthine or the Vigil, leading to people dying in either one regardless, to which you get blamed for not saving the other. Siding with or against the Architect, doing either leads to both good and bad consequences.
How about all those quests where you have to side with the Mages or the Templars? All of the damned if you do or damned if you don't types of quests lead you to make tough choices. You can argue your justifications of your choices all you'd like, but just like Loghain, he had to make tough choices and he made the decisions that he believed was for the betterment of Ferelden, just as the Warden or Hawke had to make theirs for the betterment of whatever cause they followed.
Can you safely say that either choices are entirely right or wrong? All of their actions can be considered condemnable in some way, especially to the opposing side but yet, those choices are made. It just depends upon the perspective one is looking at. Now for some of the more optional choices you can choose, things like killing an entire elven settlement with werewolves so they can help you defeat the darkspawn?
Keeping Golems as slaves to use against the darkspawn? Killing innocent mages in the Circle of Magi to stop them? What about if you chose to spare Anders, or even recruit Sten? Both killed innocent people and did it to their knowledge with little remorse, and both admit to their crimes. If any one of you posters actually chose to do those types of things, how do you explain that without thinking of whom you've just killed or that you've supported people who have killed innocents?
What if those people wanted vengeance on you or wanted your death? They'd have every right to condemn you just as you do against Loghain at that point. Even if you didn't chose any of those, simply look to my first paragraph on other decisions you've had to make.
All I'm saying is, put yourselves in other people's shoes for once and maybe there will be more understanding. Celsis talk , March 15, UTC. I haven't played ME3, so I can't really compare situations regarding that game. But in any case, I can't imagine many people who would immediately turn themselves in after choosing between the screwed either way choices, like saving Amaranthine or the Vigil.
They'd have to believe that since they couldn't choose to save both, they are to blame for not saving the other and must be punished first and foremost. Those types of people are few and far between, so I can't expect anyone to really do that until they are forced somehow to face the consequences of their actions, but to be honest, why should they be blamed? Something had to be done, and thus it was done, and sacrifices are made in the process because of it, if the Warden chose to do nothing, both places would have been lost.
So at that point, why should Loghain have turned himself in when he believed he was needed to save his country and that he did what was for its best interest? If he was taken out of the picture, how would he have gathered the armies in Denerim? He believed he was the only one who could do it, and he had his reasons to believe that, even though we all know he was wrong, he did what he thought was best given his circumstances.
Once he was proven wrong in the Landsmeet, he completely admits he was wrong and even compliments the Warden. He says, "I underestimated you, Warden, I thought you were like Cailan, a child wanting to play at war.
I was wrong. There is a strength in you that I have not seen anywhere since Maric died. I yield. He could have been like Howe, and cursed you even on his dying breath, but no, once he was truely proven to have been wrong, he yielded and let you take the reigns.
But my point wasn't about punishing the choices that people make, so perhaps I took the wrong approach. It was about understanding that all choices are shrouded in grey, and that you really can't place any situation in a black or white perspective and thus shouldn't rashly jump into the idea that everyone has to be punished just because they let something horrible happen, because often times, there is no way around it no matter what you choose, you simply have to try and understand where the person is coming from before unleashing whatever judgement you have.
In terms of condemning Loghain for abandoning Cailan at Ostagar, my opinion of Cailan is pretty similar to Loghain's, he's a child who grew up in a time of peace and with glorious stories of heroic feats his father did, he knows nothing of the costs of war, and thus glorifies it and revels in the idea of looking gallant while fighting off the bad guys like in the story books.
He knew nothing of what Maric really suffered in the war, he's only heard of the valorous stories of them glorifying the feats that Maric did, when Maric himself knows it was anything but glorious. Sure he's a nice gentleman and all, but he's a weak ruler, so much so, that his wife Anora had taken up the reigns of rulership in his stead while he's off doing whatever it is he does.
Ostagar was out in the middle of nowhere, and while it's a fortress, they were bringing the fight to the darkspawn rather than defending their area in more familiar territory where it is easier to defend, which is what Loghain would have done.
There is nothing to gain from defending a fortress out in the middle of nowhere and to bring it that far away from anywhere simply to stop the darkspawn.
They had already fought two waves of darkspawn, their numbers were low, and since they were so out in the middle of nowhere it was difficult to get backup and probably supplies. Yet here is Cailan who kept wanting to fight there anyway, not to mention in the front lines, to which Loghain disagreed on both accounts, since it was a stupid strategy and Cailan was putting himself in danger for his "glorious battle".
Loghain didn't see a way of winning at this point, since they didn't have backup and his armies numbers were low.
He didn't trust the Orlesians for his own viable reasons due to their past relationships , but even if he did they probably would never have made it on time, considering how far away they are. When it came down to the last battle, the Tower of Ishal was overrun, thus delaying the Warden and Alistair's signal, by the time they had lit the tower, even if Loghain had charged, Cailan would soon be dead along with Duncan, since their deaths happened very soon after the beacon and they had been engaged with the darkspawn for awhile already, since they were on the front lines.
It takes time to rush an army from the flank, and to reach the front from there, so Loghain would not have reached them no matter what. Loghain probably realized this, and did not wish to waste more men on another pointless fight that at that point he knew they couldn't win, and thus he abandoned Cailan to save what men he could.
Flemeth said every man died at Ostagar but those who had left, I do not think Loghain's charge would have truly saved the day even if the tower was lit on time and he knew this as well and thus made the tough decision to save what men he could. He knew what men he had lost at Ostagar by abandoning them, he didn't do it lightly, but Cailan essentially created his own demise by being the naive king he is. So it was either have all of his men die at Ostagar, or save what he could have, according to him.
In terms of his distrust of Grey Wardens, he really didn't have any reason to trust them. They were essentially myth for the longest of times in Ferelden, and their reputation was stained by the events with Sophia Dryden.
Then, in The Calling, they come out of nowhere and expect Maric or him to risk their lives on a wild goose chase after a man who may or may not be dead based upon something they haven't fully divulged to them and expecting to be trusted.
Then Maric disappears on him because of these Grey Wardens and now he has to take over for Maric and explain to his son that his father is gone plus explain to everyone else.
Maric then reinstates them back into Ferelden, but they are still few in number and very secretive. He has been given no reasons to believe in them except upon faith of the goodness in humans I suppose, but he does not use faith and hope as a good indicator of choices because again, he's very pragmatic.
As to why he used the Grey Wardens as a scape goat, well, sadly, he didn't believe them as a viable way to save Ferelden, for above reasons and because the Grey Wardens were known not to take on other people's causes due to their higher order, so how could he have trusted them? They had no allegiance to Ferelden or anywhere, and they were strangers who I guess he might have thought were easy to use so he could continue to try and protect Ferelden.
Obviously he errored very severely on this, and is utterly proven wrong, but based upon their past, I can understand why he thought the way he did. I do not personally agree with a lot of his decisions, but I also use faith and hope as good reasoning for my decisions, like Maric does when agreeing to go with the Grey Wardens, which can be either foolish or not, but it's a decision that people must make. Celsis talk , March 16, UTC.
Yeah, I've only recruited Loghain once to get the ending where he sacrifices himself, but I never remember him actually admitting that he regrets what he did. There's a big difference between accepting that someone bested you in a duel and perceiving that they'd make a good political figure, and admitting that what you did to achieve your goals was wrong.
IIRC, he never does that. Of course, that would be because he believes that he didn't do anything wrong. And therein lies the problem. I agree with Ygrain here: I'm pretty sure that in several of the situations Loghain found himself in, there were other, less brutal ways to achieve what he needed, it's just that he doesn't seem to much want to look for them.
For example, I'm pretty sure that selling elves into slavery was not the ONLY way to finance the war effort. And if they had, yes, I'd consider them accountable.
Just as I consider Loghain accountable. And that's not mentioning what was done to the Couslands, the Wardens, and sacrificing an entire army just to kill one man Cailan , which is really a rather stupid strategic move, for someone who's supposedly a brilliant strategist. I also think that the sum of his actions weighs a LOT more heavily in the balance than those of Sten or Anders. As a sidenote, I find it funny that Isabela's never mentioned in that lot: after all, she did cause a qunari raid on Kirkwall because of greed.
That being said, I'm not a fan of summary public executions. Had Loghain expressed genuine regret, I would've rather looked for ways that he could atone rather than slit his throat, and, had there been a way of recruiting him and reasoning with Alistair, I would've done it. You can also let Loghain live. It's not a decision I like the way it is presented in the game. A lot of handwaving and a big leap of faith, but I do have my own idea as to why and how he could and should be spared.
I see it as part of a deal with Anora, you spare her father the death of a traitor and she will not turn on you. Edited by klarabella, 02 May - PM. What's difficult about that? He's been waiting for it ever since Ostagar. I see reason to make Anora queen with him either, myself. He does just fine on his own, and makes it clear that he doesn't trust her or want to marry her, so it's a fairly nasty thing to do to him.
The hardening line is what's left of a larger conversation that got cut, so has to be take more for shorthand that he has look out for himself, than that the world sucks. His conversation with you afterwards in camp makes that clear "I've been thinking about what you said.
You're right, I do need to look out for myself more, or I'll never be happy. He shouldn't be dependent on the PC to do that for him. Hardened Alistair is more confident and believes that he's capable of more--that's a good thing.
He's still himself, and he still won't want to do anything murky unless you convince him, and you don't have to do that. By Guest - Tue May 03, am.
You know I'm going to disagree as we've both been here a long time. I'll present my exposition. That is not in question.
Teagan and Isolde and Connor said the demon was the only thing keeping Eamon alive.
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